Generation scripts

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Tilt
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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#16

Post by Tilt » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:31 pm

Hey, thanks for the long response! Great to read your insights.

Yeah, the problem with selling pipeline tools is that nobody starts up with the bought pipeline tools. Everybody already has a file structure that they don't want to give up.

I don't know how Generation was conceived but it seems like it was made to solve a specific problem, maybe even a custom solution for Uncharted Territory?

But what people want from a Fusion companion app nowadays is probably more like Nuke Studio with editing capabilities and effects/color corrections. You can see that Eyeon already conceded some of this in Generation AM (dissolves, per-shot grading). But Blackmagic has other products that could be closer to Nuke Studio than Generation and which just lack the Fusion connection.

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#17

Post by wellsichris » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:47 pm

and that's exactly the problem, everyone has a file structure they think is the best. and pipeline tools need everything in a structure. since everyone's is different... difficult to fix. I could make it so all comps go x, 3d apps go y,z,etc, and make a config file so people could specify and all the scripts would reference the config file. but even then, the basic concept of comps/shot1 comps/shot2 vs shot1/comps shot1/3d can get people crossed, and no way our system would work with the later,

But that's when you just draw a line and say, this is as much flexibility as we can give you, take, or script it yourself, or keep using what you are using. and I think enough people would take it, it would be worth it for generation.

Generation isn't a companion app is the problem, I don't know why it was made. but it's clear use is essentially what I showed. to try and make it a companion app is to say kill it and just tweak resolve. color and editing. I don't think that's the best workflow, because it doesn't solve many problems that aren't already solved, and if it does, what is the meaningful way it would?

However picture a generation with scripts talking to everything, including davinci, where you could one click take all shots marked for VFX in your davinci edit timeline, and send them to generaiton making all the vfx pipeline on the way, and have them talking so, when the shot is finished, it's a one click back to davinci, or no click for that matter, have an option in davinci to just always gets what's in the final folder from generation. so editor or colorist has the newest shot. have a data base that stores general luts per shot that they talk back and forth, so I can turn on and off "davinci" look inside generation, so as an artist I can see an idea of what final color is doing. Have a "context" button in generation that would grab the shots before and after from davinci, and cache that in generation. So as an artist I can see context of none VFX shots. That would be the ideal workflow for me. the speed and simplicity, and customization of generation. and then some scripting in davinci so it can talk to it. And generation stays controlling life, not davinci... you have a small number of editors, and colorists, it doesn't make sense to put the rest of the VFX pipeline inside their tools. It makes way more sense, to beef up the communications between the two and keep the VFX pipeline streamlined.

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#18

Post by Tilt » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:55 pm

but that's already very specific wishes for your pipeline :-)

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#19

Post by wellsichris » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:54 am

that's the great thing about discussion. I'd love to hear better ideas about how things can or should work. I have worked a number of places. and this was created based off of the best ideas from others mixed with my own. if I was a better scripter I would have an asset management database in generation for example. it's a better way to work. I was at a shop that had a tool that did keep track of all the assets. and I mean all of them. however the interface and actual "make life better" wasn't as high as what we have done. it made THE project managers life easier. but not the artists. what I have described is from my core artists view. what would make my life easier absolutely. a TD would disagree pushing for more checking in and out of assets. and project manager would disagree. pushing for more reasons to have them around :)

so I would love to hear others workflows. but so far we are the only ones I know of that have said. here's how we work. for better or worse history shows the loudest ideas get moved forward not always the best ideas. but being the only idea by default makes mine the best and the worst. you can't know how wrong you are until you see it work better and I haven't seen that but openly welcome it. if someone said oh that's cute. but really here is how it should work...and here's why. I would say great. and in reality that's the only thing that's will save generation is if blackmagic can see more people using generation in impressive ways.

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#20

Post by Tilt » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:06 am

Oh, I didn't want to imply that your workflow is in any way less than ideal! Just that what you need from Generation is already specific to a pipeline that uses DaVinci for example.

I couldn't really tell you what I need from Generation. We're currently using FTrack and are pretty happy with how it solves collaboration, shot assignment, messaging, client reviews (even with scribbles on top of video frames). So that would leave Generation as a player with a single video track...

Your wish of selecting stuff in DaVinci and letting Generation handle the vfx timeline sounds good and well with Generation in its current state. But why would Blackmagic keep Generation around for that if Resolve could be turned into the pipeline hub? As a player for extreme shows like 4K 120fps?

(disclaimer: I know little about Resolve and its current feature set... but from what people said on Pigsfly when Nuke Studio was released I think lots of people want a way to couple multi-track editing and compositing more closely... so maybe the next thing we'll see from Blackmagic are plugins for Fusion that copy the color corrections of DaVinci perfectly?)

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#21

Post by wellsichris » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:06 am

you should open up Resolve :) it's a great color application, it has awesome/many features in that regard, and editing seems to be moving with great momentum,

However, it's the opposite of generation, generation is deceptively simple. at first look it's a playback system and that's what stands out of the UI. When you open Resolve and a new guy, you say. wow this looks powerful, let me drag some footage over and get crackin. oh you can't, why, bang head for a while. figure out you have to mount "media" aka drives so that then it can just read the footage. great, let me right click on the media storage area to add. hmm... add folder, ya that doesn't work, where's the + button, nope can't find one, how the.. google, tutorial , come back after, go into preferences add a drive. then you can drag from a explorer window to davinci. yes that is a great workflow, once you know great, not a problem, but for something so simple, why so complicated. the color tools are great. would love them inside fusion, davinci reminds me a little of zbrush, in the it started one way and has been built up over the years on that way. while the rest of the world, has some standards in gui's that make jumping around easier. Everytime I get into zbrush I feel like I have to relearn it because I don't use it enough to stay fluid in that system, I feel davinci is similiar. not saying it's not powerful, zbrush is amazing, davinci is amazing. Just saying it has to be powerful to make the user bang against the experience. it weeds out casual artists that want to jump in, do something and jump out. not going to happen,

So do I want every artists to have to learn that system to be able to run generation? no, I really don't. if they could make it so the geneartion module of davinci was as straight forward as generation, great. but if that's the case, why rebuild generation in davinci, when you already have it build, and some scripting bridges solve the problem. what is the added benefit?

it takes me, what a 13 minute video, and anyone that has watched that could jump into my pipeline and get work done. in davinci that 13 min video is to learn how to setup davinci to bring footage in :)

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#22

Post by Chad » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:59 am

Even launching Resolve takes too long. Just timed it over here, 49s to the login screen. It's fine if you're a colorist and you leave it open all the time, but if you are a VFX artist just wanting to update a clip? Too slow. Generation is much faster for that, and you can update a clip without even launching Generation (assuming the project isn't locked, but that's already been discussed). Resolve 11 (Windows) takes up 4.5GB of RAM before you even open a project. That would also be terrible for quickly getting in and updating a clip and getting out.

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#23

Post by razzy » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:50 pm

Thanks Chris,
This is all great information. Also to everyone else for their comments. I have only had it for a short time and I come from a one person perspective. My 2 cents are... well very much like everyone else. However, for me, and I am using it as I write this, it is fast for playback, Quick use of LUT's and general review of the image. It is my review system. I really don't use to much scripting, so I am not using it to the level Chris is even, and I find it makes things move along faster and smoother. This is not unique, I did some similar stuff in the past with FrameCycler, but that was a totally F'ing pain. So to having something like Generation is very useful to me. There is a future with this at Black Magic. I think it will stay around, and could be a front end to Fusion, some kind of database, Resolve and any other software they should get. I know Resolve does not have python, but you never know. The more we all tell them our interest they will pay attention, well I hope they would.

cheers

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Re: GENERATION: the best kept secret that shouldn't be secret. blackmagic discussion

#24

Post by Chad » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:06 pm

This past week I was assistant camera operator / DIT for a highspeed shoot using Phantom and IDT cameras. Commercial for a very large fruit company. Had both Resolve Studio and Generation installed, and while Resolve did the job just fine, Generation was so much faster for just dragging in a series of takes, playing them in a loop from disk, and setting in/out points for trimming. I haven't done 24fps work in a long time, but Generation really is awesome at it.