Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

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mizgo
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Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#1

Post by mizgo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:10 am

Hi.
Can I ask you guys for an advice?

I am working on shots in 5.8k. For speeding up feedback I am using Proxy mode set to 3:1. Big bottleneck is in file load times from network. I have NVMe ssd as loaders diskcache and I am using tool diskcaching on some branches.
For more speed in new shots (not cached yet) I decided to use prerendered proxyfiles in 3:1 ratio for loaders. It helps in speed and image quality as expected (DWAA exr are my source files. They probably can't be readed at only needed scanlines. That means smaller files will speedup loading times over network. More quality downsampling filter was used for rendered proxy files as for realtime generated ones. That means higher Q image).

All good for now. But when I need to check image in full res for final touches as finesing filmgrain, something I did not expect happens. Turing of Proxy mode (Prx button) shrinks image (canvas) to my proxy files resolution. That means all resolution dependent settings are looking incorrect and I am watching same image fidelity as before. Turning it back on stretch image back to full res but with proxy quality output.

Removing path to proxy file from loader did not change this behavior. Reloading full res images to loader have no effect on this. I need to create new loader and set only fullres path to it and use automaticaly created proxy image to have canvas at same resolution in fullres and proxy.
What I am doing wrong?

I am working on Fusion 9.0.2 Studio on Windows 10.

Thanks.
Michal.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#2

Post by mizgo » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:21 am

No progress.
When I tested this workflow with mov files as proxy instead exr, everything works OK.
That brings me to an idea. Problem can by same naming of the files. MOV files was my preview files with their naming convention. EXRs have same names. I did that with a purpose. I can copy whole path with filename to Proxy filename dialog and add only suffix to my last folder name to get to the proxy files.
What if there is a problem with same naming and that is why it links loader to them directly when I dissable Proxy mode.
I tested it with other files at home and I was not able to replicate this problem.
That brings me to the this files or my settings in Fusion on this machine. But I was able to reproduce this problem on other computer at work where I loaded default settings for loader tool and for Fusion Preferences.
I will do some testing with this files and naming convetion, if that is causing a problem.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#3

Post by Midgardsormr » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:47 am

The only way I can reproduce this problem is if I have an expression that reads an Input's or Output's dimensions. Does it happen for you if you're just looking at the Loader? Or can you trace the issue to a particular node?

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#4

Post by mizgo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:51 am

Thank you for your answer.

It happens at the loader and of course at any node after loader. I think it is a problem with loader diskcaching. Loader is caching proxyfiles and after turning Proxymode off it still loading diskcached files, but that files are in 1/3 resolution.
Sometimes is doing what I described last time and sometimes it is showing smaller image version positioned at x0y0 corner in full size canvas.
Clearing disk cache from preferences or manually resolved the problem (tested only on the second behaviour)

How can I prevent this behaviour?
Thanks.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#5

Post by andromeda_girl » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:10 am

sorry to ask this one but are your proxy files a different frame size than your original files?
we are using DWAA compressed exr's and we are keeping the frame sizes the same as the original.
that said, tragically- we are not using fusion for this show, but it makes me wonder if that might be messing things up for you if your proxies are a different frame size.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#6

Post by mizgo » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:09 am

I am glad you are asking and trying to help.

Do I understand your question correctly?
You are asking if my proxy files are in different resolution as my original plates?
Yes, they are in 3:1 ratio. My original plates are 5796px wide. My proxy files are 1932px wide. Both in same aspect ratio of course.
I dont see big benefit in using proxy files in same resolution. I can use smaller file formats, but color correction or keying on more compressed files or files with less bit depth will be not matching with original files. Using DWAA EXRs with higher compresion as Proxy will be very small performance improovment for me. I am using DWAA EXRs as my full res plates.

As far as I know Fusion will resize loaded proxy files to match "Prx" setting in composition, if that file is not matching. Same as you do not have specified Proxy file and you are asking Fusion to downres original plate in Proxy mode. Why to load all that pixels over network and downres it in real time? That will defeat the purpose of Proxy files for me. There are probably image formats which can be loaded by scanline and Fusion can load only needed scanelines to speed up loading time. But at this resuliton it will be probably still bigger file transfer than 3:1 resolution DWAA compressed EXR.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#7

Post by SirEdric » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:39 am

Hi mizgo.

I built a little test setup.
Would you mind to try an see what the results are on your side?
(select all, copy, paste in Fusion)

Code: Select all

{
	Tools = ordered() {
		Plasma1 = Plasma {
			Inputs = {
				Width = Input { Value = 4196, },
				Height = Input { Value = 2360, },
				["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
				Phase = Input {
					Value = 16.6,
					Expression = "time/10",
				},
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { -55, 115.5 } },
		},
		Text1 = TextPlus {
			Inputs = {
				Width = Input { Value = 640, },
				Height = Input { Value = 360, },
				["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
				Size = Input { Value = 0.3376, },
				Font = Input { Value = "Open Sans", },
				StyledText = Input { Value = "PROXY\nMUSIC", },
				Style = Input { Value = "Bold", },
				ManualFontKerningPlacement = Input {
					Value = StyledText {
						Array = {
						},
						Value = ""
					},
				},
				SelectElement = Input { Value = 1, },
				Select = Input { Value = 1, },
				Enabled2 = Input { Value = 1, },
				Red2 = Input { Value = 0, },
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 385, 115.5 } },
		},
		Saver1_1 = Saver {
			Inputs = {
				ProcessWhenBlendIs00 = Input { Value = 0, },
				Clip = Input {
					Value = Clip {
						Filename = "Comp:\\Full\\ProxyTest_0000.jpg",
						FormatID = "JpegFormat",
						Length = 0,
						Saving = true,
						TrimIn = 0,
						ExtendFirst = 0,
						ExtendLast = 0,
						Loop = 1,
						AspectMode = 0,
						Depth = 0,
						GlobalStart = -2000000000,
						GlobalEnd = 0
					},
				},
				CreateDir = Input { Value = 1, },
				OutputFormat = Input { Value = FuID { "JpegFormat" }, },
				["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
				Input = Input {
					SourceOp = "Plasma1",
					Source = "Output",
				},
				["JpegFormat.Quality"] = Input { Value = 97, },
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 495, 82.5 } },
		},
		Merge1 = Merge {
			Inputs = {
				Background = Input {
					SourceOp = "Resize2",
					Source = "Output",
				},
				Foreground = Input {
					SourceOp = "Text1",
					Source = "Output",
				},
				PerformDepthMerge = Input { Value = 0, },
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 385, 148.5 } },
		},
		Saver1 = Saver {
			Inputs = {
				ProcessWhenBlendIs00 = Input { Value = 0, },
				Clip = Input {
					Value = Clip {
						Filename = "Comp:\\Proxy\\ProxyTest_0000.jpg",
						FormatID = "JpegFormat",
						Length = 0,
						Saving = true,
						TrimIn = 0,
						ExtendFirst = 0,
						ExtendLast = 0,
						Loop = 1,
						AspectMode = 0,
						Depth = 0,
						GlobalStart = -2000000000,
						GlobalEnd = 0
					},
				},
				CreateDir = Input { Value = 1, },
				OutputFormat = Input { Value = FuID { "JpegFormat" }, },
				["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
				Input = Input {
					SourceOp = "Merge1",
					Source = "Output",
				},
				["JpegFormat.Quality"] = Input { Value = 97, },
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 495, 148.5 } },
		},
		Loader3 = Loader {
			Clips = {
				Clip {
					ID = "Clip1",
					Filename = "Comp:\\Full\\ProxyTest_0000.jpg",
					FormatID = "JpegFormat",
					AlternateFilename = "Comp:\\Proxy\\ProxyTest_0000.jpg",
					AlternateFormatID = "JpegFormat",
					Length = 167,
					LengthSetManually = true,
					TrimIn = 0,
					TrimOut = 166,
					ExtendFirst = 0,
					ExtendLast = 0,
					Loop = 1,
					AspectMode = 0,
					Depth = 0,
					TimeCode = 0,
					GlobalStart = 0,
					GlobalEnd = 166
				}
			},
			CtrlWZoom = false,
			Inputs = {
				["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" }, },
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 660, 115.5 } },
		},
		Resize2 = BetterResize {
			Inputs = {
				Width = Input { Value = 640, },
				Height = Input { Value = 360, },
				KeepAspect = Input { Value = 1, },
				PixelAspect = Input { Value = { 1, 1 }, },
				Input = Input {
					SourceOp = "Plasma1",
					Source = "Output",
				},
			},
			ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 220, 148.5 } },
		}
	}
}
Cheers.

Eric.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#8

Post by mizgo » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:07 am

Hi SirEdric.

Thanks for your test setup.
I saved that comp to same adress as my other shots.
It is working without the problem.

I created the loader in the same comp as this test and pointed it to one of my shots. BAM, the problem is there only on that loader. Test loader is OK. I get both of the behaviours. For first turning off Proxy mode I get small image in x0y0 corner. When I stared scrubing on timeline and switching Proxy on and off I get smaller canvas.
I have done some testing with few frames from one shot. Renaming one of the sequences (in my case adding suffix to PRX seq) done the trick. It is strange, because with your test it is working with the same names. I changed the format from jpg to exr 16bit float DWAA (DWA 32line) in your test and it is still working correctly. That probably means, something in original files makes Fusion confused if the proxy and fullres files share same names. Original files and proxy files was exported from Davinci Resolve Studio 15 (pregrade was done in Resolve and final grade will be done in Resolve) Both as exr DWAA. Original files has compression set lower than proxy files.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#9

Post by SecondMan » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:23 am

And your files don't happen to have some weird pixel aspect values?

At this point I'd ask if you could share an example file pair and a setup to so we could try to reproduce the behaviour.

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#10

Post by Chad » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:08 pm

SecondMan wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:23 am
And your files don't happen to have some weird pixel aspect values?
Pixel size, not aspect. :P

But seriously, if BMD is committed to making radical changes to Fusion despite legacy users, I hope they address the inconsistencies in pixel size handling and relative/absolute coordinates.

Like proxy is completely broken for Dimension tools, because for whatever reason it works in absolute coordinates. Actually it's not "whatever" reason, I know the reason, I just don't agree how it's applied without a toggle to allow it to be consistent with the rest of Fusion.

And tools should handle pixel size consistently.

Oh, and Blur shouldn't be scaled by 720. :D

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#11

Post by SecondMan » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:47 pm

Chad wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:08 pm
Pixel size, not aspect. :P

I swear that's what I wanted to say but I just couldn't retrieve the word 'size'...

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#12

Post by SirEdric » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:27 pm

Size doesn't matter anyways....
(I'm not going into aspect in this case...:-))

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#13

Post by mizgo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:59 am

Thanks you guys very much for responses. I am in discussion with client about sending you few frames. It is a short stop motion movie, indie project. They are great guys. I think they will be apsolutly OK with that, but I want to have theirs permission.

About the "weird pixel size". I don't know what do you mean by that. If you talking about proxy resolution, both sides of original resolution are whole numbers after dividing by 3 for proxy resolution. If not, can you educate me please?

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#14

Post by SecondMan » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:23 pm

mizgo wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:59 am
can you educate me please?

Consider the following example:

Code: [Select all] [Expand/Collapse] [Download] (WSLsnippet-2018-12-08--22.19.19.setting)
  1. {
  2.     Tools = ordered() {
  3.         Background3 = Background {
  4.             ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 165, 49.5 } },
  5.             Inputs = {
  6.                 ["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" } },
  7.                 Width = Input { Value = 1920 },
  8.                 Height = Input { Value = 1080 }
  9.             }
  10.         },
  11.         Background2 = Background {
  12.             CtrlWZoom = false,
  13.             ViewInfo = OperatorInfo { Pos = { 330, 49.5 } },
  14.             Inputs = {
  15.                 ["Gamut.SLogVersion"] = Input { Value = FuID { "SLog2" } },
  16.                 Height = Input { Value = 360 },
  17.                 Width = Input { Value = 640 },
  18.                 PixelAspect = Input { Value = { 0.5, 4 } }
  19.             }
  20.         }
  21.     }
  22. }

Background2 is 1/3 the 'size' of Background3, but when you view the tools in the Viewer, you'll notice that they are completely different. Now hover over the nodes (hold the pointer still for a bit) and look at the information that pops up. Look at "Pixel Aspect" and you will see where the difference comes from.

So if your original file and your proxies have different pixel sizes, I imagine that could bork your proxy setup quite a bit...

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Re: Turning off Proxy mode shrinking canvas to Proxy resolution

#15

Post by mizgo » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:17 am

Thanks. I see.
I didn't know that is called pixel size. This is what I was understanding under Pixel aspect from your original post.
Pixels in both files (full res and proxy) are 1:1. Square pixels.

I am sending you 3 frames from one shot in both resolutions directly copied from my working files.
link to footage (more than 100mb that's why this link)
https://we.tl/t-bAYtixCbcV

Problem is there right on loader tool. It is probably dependent on Loaders caching. If I try it on local disk, everything is OK. Problem is there only on network drives - I have Loaders caching enabled for network drives.
Problem is not presented with relative paths in loader. It is there only if I am using absolute paths, what I am using on this project.
That is why is sending you comp file irrelevant. To replicate my problem you will need just one loader with fullres and proxy sequences loaded with absolute paths and Loader caching enabled.

Problem is not only in view. It will be in render too.
"Solutions" I found to this day are clear disk cache (solution for render), rename one of the sequences (full or proxy) or use relative paths.
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