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F9 DeltaKeyer

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SirEdric
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F9 DeltaKeyer

#1

Post by SirEdric »

Dear Devs.

Currently I'm 'playing' intensely with the new DeltaKeyer and CleanPlate.
Just one word (and three exclamation marks): CUDOS!!!

Good on ya!

Cheers.

Eric.

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randymills
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#2

Post by randymills »

I'm currently working with the Delta Keyer in F9 and am also impressed at the results, but I could use some help. I am keying some very furry muppets and I'm having a hard time cleaning up the edges on some of them, mostly where hair intersects other hair. I'm not trying to hijack your thread SirEdric, so please let me know if I need to start my own thread for this. Are you aware of any training resources for the Delta Keyer / Clean Plate nodes atm? Maybe since you are playing so intensely, could you share any insight? :)

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randymills
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#3

Post by randymills »

So I got home tonight and after playing with the Delta Keyer and now adding a Clean Plate to it I can't believe the results I'm getting!!! I feel like I was completely missing the point before! This is AMAZING! I had also been using the Fringe Gain control completely wrong and have that now parked at 1.0 and am getting fantastic results on my edges, even where the fur intersects. I look forward to learning more!

I also finally got my eGPU set up properly in Fusion 9 and it's about 2-3 times faster at least. Got the Apple eGPU Development Kit running the RX 580 on my 2013 Mac Pro trashcan via Thunderbolt 2. Couldn't be happier.

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ShadowMaker SdR
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#4

Post by ShadowMaker SdR »

Randy, that's good to hear. Care to show us a couple of examples? Furry muppets are always +1 on Fusion forums.

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Wenneker
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#5

Post by Wenneker »

I would also be very happy to see some better explanation of how to use the DeltaKeyer. Maybe you can adress it in one of your video's Sander?

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ShadowMaker SdR
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#6

Post by ShadowMaker SdR »

As soon as I understand it myself. Otherwise it wil be one of those...ehrm...I don't know how this is going to work kind of videos.

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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#7

Post by VFXTobias »

Big giant tease this post is. lol :p

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randymills
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#8

Post by randymills »

I feel like I made quite a bit of headway this last week using the Delta Keyer with the Clean Plate node. I leave tomorrow morning early for a job in UT but can try to throw something together to show you guys what I've learned. I can't use any of the footage of the muppets (for obvious reasons) but can probably use some other clips I have around just to give you guys an idea of how quickly and easily this works. It was definitely a struggle getting to this point for sure, but once I figured it out, it made my life so much easier. Will try to throw something together quick tonight when I get home before I dismantle my rig to take on my trip.

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PeZiK
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#9

Post by PeZiK »

Is anyone else loosing focus on the delta keyer color picker? When selecting the green, it snaps right back to black on the release of the button. :shock:

P.

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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#10

Post by ShadowMaker SdR »

Yeah, that's the way it works. Not very fun. Best way to work at the moment is have the ingoing image on one viewer and the Delta Keyer on another, then sample from the incoming image and see what the Delta Keyer is doing on the other one.

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Adelson
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#11

Post by Adelson »

Is anyone else loosing focus on the delta keyer color picker? When selecting the green, it snaps right back to black on the release of the button.
You can drag the picker while holding the ALT key.
This will make the Delta Keyer pick the color from the upstream image.

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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#12

Post by ShadowMaker SdR »

That's great. How do you know this? (please tell me it's not in the manual)

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Adelson
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#13

Post by Adelson »

(please tell me it's not in the manual)
It's absolutely NOT in the Tool Reference Manual, page 444 ;)

As a side note, Delta Keyer is so damn good that I am holding myself from redoing every chroma key I made in my life.

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PeZiK
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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#14

Post by PeZiK »

Adelson wrote:
(please tell me it's not in the manual)
It's absolutely NOT in the Tool Reference Manual, page 444 ;)

As a side note, Delta Keyer is so damn good that I am holding myself from redoing every chroma key I made in my life.
Ohh nice, so I guess the rtfm does pay off sometimes ;)

I still not getting this keyer, I wish there was a video tutorial or something on this subject other than tech-mombo-jombo.

P.

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Re: F9 DeltaKeyer

#15

Post by Midgardsormr »

It works very similarly to Keylight (fundamentally, it's the same method), with a couple of extras thrown in.

First (obviously) select your key color. As mentioned, holding down Alt while picking lets you pick from the upstream tool while viewing the output of Delta. Next, switch over to the Pre-Matte tab. This piece is a little bit of UltraKeyer. Select the dirty areas of your screen, not too close to the detailed areas you want to preserve, to clean up the background.
005_PreMatte.png
Keep selecting contaminated areas until most of it is gone. Then use the Erode control to push the edge of your Pre-Matte away from the edges of your talent. This prevents the harsh Pre-Matte from corrupting your details.
DK-006_PreMatte-erode.png
Next, switch to the Matte tab and use the Threshold controls to dial in the edges. The thresholds are the same as the clip black/clip white controls in Keylight. Restore Fringe works just like Clip Rollback. Clean Foreground/Background are the same as Despot White/Black.

The color difference method being used here has a built-in spill suppression that you can control with the Replace Color controls.

The Fringe tab is the same as the Fringe tab in a Matte Control. The Spill Suppression controls here are in addition to the Replace Color suppression, just in case you need a little bit extra.

I haven't quite got the knack of using the Tuning ranges, so I won't talk about those.

-----

If something is connected to the Clean Plate input, that information is used to compensate for dirty or contaminated screens. It's sort of an advanced difference key—one that actually works. If you don't have an actual clean plate, you can approximate one with the Clean Plate node. That workflow doesn't work well for the sample footage I am using (courtesy of Hollywood Camera Work, by the way) due to that gauzy shawl she has. So instead I'll use a random still I found with Google.

As with any keyer, use the Pick control to choose your screen color. The immediate result looks totally wrong:
DK-007_cleanPlate.jpg
Simply adjust the Thresholds until you have knocked out all of the foreground pixels. Now use the Erode control to push the matte away from the edges of your talent—you don't want any edge pixels to get caught in this step or they'll be considered part of the screen and removed.

Use Grow edges to extend the edges of the clean plate inward again, filling in the edges again with an estimated color. Finally, click the Fill switch to fill in the center with your screen color.

Plug the output of your Clean Plate node into the Clean Plate input of Delta Keyer. You shouldn't need the Pre-Matte step if you're using a clean plate, and the Matte Thresholds will be much less dramatic. You may need to do a bit more work on softening edges. Here's a before-and-after:
DK-008_cleanPlate-result.jpg
In these images, the only controls I have adjusted in DeltaKeyer are the screen color and the High Threshold to clean the foreground. You can see how much of the background noise the clean plate knocked out. But you can also see that my Erode value wasn't high enough—I lost some hair detail. Fortunately, it's easy to just increase the Erode to get it back, then adjust the thresholds to compensate.

edit: Corrected greenscreen source credit: https://www.hollywoodcamerawork.com/gre ... lates.html
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Last edited by Midgardsormr on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.