How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

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lenny87
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How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#1

Post by lenny87 » Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:37 am

Hello there,
I am trying to learn how to make smooth camera moves through a 3d scene/environment.

Like in this video: From 0.00 sec. till 0.20 sec.


I am using the spline editor (adjusting the handles from the keyframes, manuallly or by selecting smooth or ease) to smooth out the movements, but it doesn't solve all my problems.

My main problem is, that the speed from the movement in Z-space constantly goes from fast to slow, to fast and then to slow again. Cause i don't know how to time this correctly.

Is it possible to create a path in 3d space, which i can then connect or modify to my camera3D node?

Does anybody has some tips? Or does anybody knows some good tutorial about this?

Hope somebody can help me out?

Thanx in front.
Greetz Lenny
Last edited by lenny87 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#2

Post by Miltos » Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:25 am

The camera move on the video you posted is easy to do in Fusion without having to resort to any tricks or special procedures.

You just have to tweak the key-frame values, their distance and their splines until the move looks smooth and nice. Smoothing out the splines automatically doesn't mean you will have a nice camera movement or nice timing.

It takes a bit of time to refine (depending on your experience with that kind of animation) but you will eventually get there. Practice some more!

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#3

Post by JPDoc » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:51 am

Well, I'm not so sure about that, I'm afraid.

I've been controlling animation with spline curves for pushing 30 years and I just ended up pulling my hair out with a fusion camera animation, and not for the first time. Although eyeon/Blackmagic recently added "interactive 3D splines" and make a big deal of it in a lot of the marketing/PR hype I find they're pretty much unusable for any work where fine control of movement is needed.

For example, make a camera move in 3D space where the positions of the keyframes are irregular, as opposed to evenly spaced in time and in location. Look at the red path line in the viewer - it will be linear by default. So you can ease in and out off the spatial positions using the spline graph but your camera or object will still go through that position - if it's a sharp corner your camera will do a sharp corner. You can cover it a bit with spline ease in and out but the cornering will still happen.

If you select the path and right click you get a drop down that has some limited options, one of which is "smooth". If you select that you get another pull down that lets you limit the smoothing to xyz axes/positions, all good. You seem to have actually select the path point in space, though, and it seems to work some of the time but not others - you can tell it has worked as you get a box appearing about the path and you can now get other options by mouse click.

If you say select all XYZ you do get a "smoothed" version of the path, but with no bezier handles or obvious way to change the strength of the curve at each point. So the path can double back on itself, compress or do any number of weird things, none of which are controllable. There is an "ease in-ease out" function that sort of changes this a bit but it seems to work over the whole path and I have yet to get my head around what it's actually doing. Any of the other usual spline options available in 2D splines are actually greyed out.

I've spent hours on various projects over the last year of so trying to make these 3D splines do what I want and I've come to the conclusion that unless your move is relatively simple you're wasting your time. In fact, I've ended up re-doing the camera move in Maya (where you have much better control of 3D splines) using path animation and baking the camera move, then importing the Maya camera into fusion. You can then have a path that you want and use the 2D spline editor to refine it. A horrible work flow (and the baked camera move slows down the interactivity in the 3D viewport something rotten) but this is the only way I've found to get the 3D move I want.

I realize that I may be talking on a somewhat more advanced level than the initial poster meant and in general I agree with the response above, but if anyone here has found a way of controlling the "3D interactive splines" on a pro level I'd love to hear it. Or even if anyone can tell me what the "ease in-ease out" and "spline taper" gismos that come up with 3D interactive splines are actually doing . . .

And if anyone from BlackMagic development can tell me if any more work will be done to make the 3D interactive splines more usable it would also be very welcome. With the greatest respect what is there appears to be the basic bones of a workable 3D spline animation system but without sufficient control to make it actually usable.

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#4

Post by lenny87 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:14 am

Miltos wrote:The camera move on the video you posted is easy to do in Fusion without having to resort to any tricks or special procedures.

You just have to tweak the key-frame values, their distance and their splines until the move looks smooth and nice. Smoothing out the splines automatically doesn't mean you will have a nice camera movement or nice timing.

It takes a bit of time to refine (depending on your experience with that kind of animation) but you will eventually get there. Practice some more!
Thanx Miltos for your reply, i will dive into it

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#5

Post by lenny87 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:17 am

JPDoc wrote:Well, I'm not so sure about that, I'm afraid.

I've been controlling animation with spline curves for pushing 30 years and I just ended up pulling my hair out with a fusion camera animation, and not for the first time. Although eyeon/Blackmagic recently added "interactive 3D splines" and make a big deal of it in a lot of the marketing/PR hype I find they're pretty much unusable for any work where fine control of movement is needed.
Thanx for your reply JPDoc.

Is this "interactive 3D spline" only available in fusion 8 ?

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#6

Post by Dunn » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:04 pm

Hey there, Yes its true about the 3d Paths in Fusion.. they are really hard to work with. Hope that they will improve it.

This is Camera rig I once created in Fu 6.4 / .. I just recreated it in Fu 8. :)
It uses the 3D Text tool for 3D Path... which is just a 2d Polygon path, that gets used by the 3D Text Layout ( Path ) options.
..And some CoordTransform3Ds + Calculations + Perturbs + Locator3D + a CustomTool for the controls
Check out the video and Comp to see how it was setup.

FU_3D_PATH_CAMERA_RIG.comp
Whats missing is Camera Banking (if only the CoordTransform3D could get Rotations :P )

Anyway, Enjoy. I once had it as a micro .. can´t find it now. Oh well might make another one.
Sorry about the sh*tty video..you can see how FU is struggling to catch up and the recording software is just doing its thing. :lol:
....did this on a old macbook :oops:
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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#7

Post by lenny87 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:18 pm

Dunn wrote:Hey there, Yes its true about the 3d Paths in Fusion.. they are really hard to work with. Hope that they will improve it.

This is Camera rig I once created in Fu 6.4 / .. I just recreated it in Fu 8. :)
It uses the 3D Text tool for 3D Path... which is just a 2d Polygon path, that gets used by the 3D Text Layout ( Path ) options.
..And some CoordTransform3Ds + Calculations + Perturbs + Locator3D + a CustomTool for the controls
Check out the video and Comp to see how it was setup.

FU_3D_PATH_CAMERA_RIG.comp
Whats missing is Camera Banking (if only the CoordTransform3D could get Rotations :P )

Anyway, Enjoy. I once had it as a micro .. can´t find it now. Oh well might make another one.
Sorry about the sh*tty video..you can see how FU is struggling to catch up and the recording software is just doing its thing. :lol:
....did this on a old macbook :oops:
He Dunn,
Thank you very much for your reply, comp and tutorial. I really appreciate it :-)
This is awesome, i am going to dive into it straight away.
Greetz lenny

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#8

Post by Farmfield » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:10 am

Mmm, the in viewport editable bezier animations paths is one of few things Adobe got right in AE. Nuke is even worse than Fusion, you only see the animation paths, but they are not interactive at all, in Fusion you can at least handle the keyframe position in 3D space even if you don't have access to the curve handles. On the other hand the Nuke camera node has an axis (null) parenting input as well as a lookat input - not sure how you set that up in Fusion.

And messing about with this I realize I don't know how to parent 3D objects to each other - I must be able to do that, right?

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#9

Post by Dunn » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:35 am

Here´s one more oldie.. It was based on this rig for Aftereffects. I just tried to mimic it in Fusion.
Its an oldie but should work in Fu8 .. u just need the wave.fuse. :)
rig.png

CAMRIG_v9.comp
It needs the Wave.fuse to work
Wave.Fuse
I think, i will create a new thread in the WIP area (aka Sweat box) for this .. just to get the b̶a̶l̶l̶ camera rolling again. ;)
It needs abit of clean up & it would be also cool to get it into a Fuse or Macro.
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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#10

Post by miaz3 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:47 am

Excellent Dunn !

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#11

Post by JPDoc » Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:20 am

A very cool and "out of the box" idea, Dunn! Beats my long winded maya route by a long shot. Your nifty work around is going to be of huge use to me, many thanks.

It would be good, however, if BlackMagic do take notice and actually finish the job on the 3D interactive splines, particularly as they are making such a big deal of it in their marketing, before a lot of AfterEffects guys who switched to Fusion hit this wall and get very very frustrated.

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#12

Post by lenny87 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:16 am

Dunn wrote:Here´s one more oldie.. It was based on this rig for Aftereffects. I just tried to mimic it in Fusion.
Its an oldie but should work in Fu8 .. u just need the wave.fuse. :)


I think, i will create a new thread in the WIP area (aka Sweat box) for this .. just to get the b̶a̶l̶l̶ camera rolling again. ;)
It needs abit of clean up & it would be also cool to get it into a Fuse or Macro.
This is so cool, this blows my mind :-) Very impressive and it is going to make everything so much easier for me :D

Thanx a lot Dunn

I do have a question though
This is probably a dumm question, cause i am probably missing something as a newbie:
But how do i get rid of the animation that comes with it, as soon as i start the comp?

I guess it has something to do with the Camtarget node and the Torus that is in there, but i just don't understand how to change it? Or probably i shouldn't change it??

Hope somebody can help?
Greetz Lenny

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#13

Post by French_Fry » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:25 pm

Nice one Dunn!

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#14

Post by Dunn » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:38 pm

Thanx guys! :D

@Lenny to get rid of the animation in the CAMRIG .. just reset all Sliders that have the ending ".. _speed" to "0" like:
In the Cam_Speed_Settings, zero out : CAM_HEADING_SPEED, CAM_PITCH_SPEED ...etc.

Hope that helps.

You can PM me if you need more help. I got abit of free time till the next job ;)

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Re: How to make smooth movements with the Camera?

#15

Post by lenny87 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:55 am

Dunn wrote:Thanx guys! :D

@Lenny to get rid of the animation in the CAMRIG .. just reset all Sliders that have the ending ".. _speed" to "0" like:
In the Cam_Speed_Settings, zero out : CAM_HEADING_SPEED, CAM_PITCH_SPEED ...etc.

Perfect! Thanx