Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

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lenny87
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Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#1

Post by lenny87 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:50 am

He there everybody,

Fusion is crashing all the time during my rendering, I think that it might be a hardware problem, cause Fusion really crashes and the Fusion window, blips a way and dissapears from my screen.

I haven't had something like this before. I mean I always have had that my renders crashed every know and then (like everybody else). But then i always could see in the Console what went wrong.

Now when I render, the whole fusion program crashes and dissapears.

Is there a way how I can found out, why it crashes?

And is there a software that I can use to check if something is wrong with my hardware or computer?

This what i have on my computer:

I work on a 64 bit windows 10 computer, with Fusion 9.0.2 Studio. The computer and software is set up like this:
-I have a SSM drive M2 --> reading: 770MB/s • writing: 625MB/s --> on here windows 10 is installed and also Fusion 9.0.2
-I have a SSD drive (samsung 850 EVO 500 GB --> reading: 540MB/s • writing: 520MB/s) --> here i have stored my footage which i use in Fusion
-I have a 2TB HDD internal drive installed --> here is my comp located --> and on this drive is the folder where i write my exr files to from the render.
-Intel core i7-4790K CPU 4.00ghz
-32 GB ram
-Geforce GTX 970 Nvidia Graphics card

I hope somebody has a tip on how to go about to solving the problem.
Have a nice weekend.
Lenny

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#2

Post by SirEdric » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:43 am

Hi Lenny.

Ungraceful crashes suck....:-/
When you open Fusion's Prefs and go to the OpenCL Page, is you graphics card listed correctly?
If not, a driver update (or installing the Intel Standard OpenCL driver) might help...

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#3

Post by lenny87 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:16 am

He Eric,
Thanx for your reply :-) Yep crashes suck :banghead:
Yes the graphics card is listed properly in the open CL page. I have done a clean install of the Nvidia graphic cards drivers, but it didn't change the crashes.

Is there any tools/apps you can use to check if hardware is broken?
Lenny
SirEdric wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:43 am
Hi Lenny.

Ungraceful crashes suck....:-/
When you open Fusion's Prefs and go to the OpenCL Page, is you graphics card listed correctly?
If not, a driver update (or installing the Intel Standard OpenCL driver) might help...

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#4

Post by gez » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:36 am

Had the same problem, I don't think it is an actual hardware problem but related.
Turning off OpenCL features seems to solve it completely (although of course it will make everything painfully slow). Also, motion blur seemed to have some impact in my tests. Turning it off resulted in less crashes.
In subsequent tests it seemed like a closer look to the flow, more efficient DoD management and other optimizations reduced the crashes a lot. In other words, better organization seemed to play better with the GPU. I wonder whether it's some VRAM issue.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#5

Post by intelligent machine » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:36 pm

If you go to the end frame and no errors appear in the console tab, then a good troubleshooting method is to attach your saver at different points along the flow, starting early in and moving toward the end. Render the same frame range again and again until your find where the culprit is. It may be a single node that you can disable openCL on or it could be a loader with some corrupt files in the mix?

Also try rendering pre-comps. Find a spot in the flow where no additional changes are needed earlier on, add a saver at that point and then load in the results right after. This will help lower the memory consumption.

I've had comps where Fusion would crash or lock up once the memory (128GB with around 90 available to Fusion) was full for a while and not being released. For those comps, I simply split the render job into groups of around 300 frames and the problem was solved.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#6

Post by SirEdric » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:37 pm

Brilliant answer, @intelligent machine !
Thanks!

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#7

Post by andromeda_girl » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:59 am

that is my methodology as well. it is usually a single little thing easy to overlook and correct causing these.
good luck, Lenny!
you'll find it.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#8

Post by gez » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:14 am

That's interesting @intelligent machine, thank you!
I'm curious about that "pre-comp" workflow and how it is different to disk caches. I've been skimming through the manual and I didn't find anything that clarifies the difference, but it looks like I wrongly assumed that disk caches were in fact saved pre-renders from the node output (and they are not).
Could you please elaborate on the pre-comp workflow and when is it preferred to using node cache? When to use cache?
Thanks in advance! :-)

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#9

Post by intelligent machine » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:22 pm

Whether to or when to use disk caches is a matter of preference. I use disk caches, too but it depends a lot on the project.

Let's say I have a couple green screen elements to key: I'd cache the results of those individually once I've tested the keyed element against different color solid backgrounds and am satisfied with it.

Let's say I''m cleaning up the BG plate before comping elements in the FG: I'd probably render out the cleaned BG plate and load in the result in the same comp to move forward with or start a new comp using the result.

Also, since I use Fusion for film comp and motion design videos that can sometimes run 2.5 to 5 minutes, pre-comping groups of elements for their time on screen is just easier. The Final render portion of the comp is basically a bunch of loaders merged together against a solid BG. The BG runs the entire length of the video and the pre-rendered segments comped on top are set to specific in/out times.

The flow in the attached image is for a 3 minute mograph project I recently completed. The top row is for captions that are overlaid over the video. Each of the pipe routers you see dropping below the main comp are where I've rendered out entire segments of the project (the pipe routers are just to reference where pre-comps begin/end). To the far right is a small group of loaders combining the main segments back together along with the captions for the final output. If the client wants a change to a single element then I just need to rework that pre-comped portion and then re-render the affected frames, refresh a loader at the end and re-render those specific frames in the final comp. (for these projects the final comp goes to DaVinci Resolve where I sweeten the video and lay in the VO and music tracks)

The same can be done with disk caching but for projects such as this I've found my method above more reliable and easier to trace back through. I can click on a loader that follows something I've pre-rendered out and see the frame range and drag that loader down to the timeline to set the render range where it needs to be for a re-render of that segment. I've had a miserable time/mixed results working with disk caches when I change 30 out of 200 frames and just want to re-pre-render those 30 frames and keep the rest of the cache intact.

Image

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#10

Post by gez » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:38 pm

@intelligent machine,
That's extremely valuable information. Thank you very much for sharing.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#11

Post by thibaud » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:47 am

I can pretty much share the same experience than @intelligent machine. I have a similar methodology (doing mograph too).
Essentially we are creating our own diskcache, more flexibility and control than the native diskcache solution I guess, I'd love to use them more often but I also find them not as reliable as I'd want them to be.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#12

Post by lenny87 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:49 am

Thanx Intelligent Machine and all the other people that kindly reacted :-)
I also use loads of pre-comps to make it all easier to render.
My problem, that I have now, has not something to do with the comp it self, as it is a comp that I have rendered before with no problems.
It's a simple keying comp to key out my character and nothing more then that.

I use the delta keyer + neat video's noise reduction to get rid of the noise from my footage. I think that maybe the problem has something to do with neat video.
Cause I recently upgraded to fusion 9.0.2 and on neat videos website it says that it works with fusion 9, but nothing said about 9.0.2

So I am downloading the latest Neatvideo version at the moment, to see if this makes a change. I sure hope it will solve my problem :-)

If not then I have to install fusion 9 again, to see if this will solve my problem.

The problem is that I don't have the Fusion 9 installation package anymore. I will make a new post and ask if somebody can put the fusion 9 installation folder
on google drive for me.

I hope i will solve my problem soon,...hahahahha,....otherwise I think I will have to do a fresh installation of windows 10 i guess :P Not looking forward to all the work what will come with that :oops:

Anyway thanx everybody for the help
lenny
intelligent machine wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:36 pm
If you go to the end frame and no errors appear in the console tab, then a good troubleshooting method is to attach your saver at different points along the flow, starting early in and moving toward the end. Render the same frame range again and again until your find where the culprit is. It may be a single node that you can disable openCL on or it could be a loader with some corrupt files in the mix?

Also try rendering pre-comps. Find a spot in the flow where no additional changes are needed earlier on, add a saver at that point and then load in the results right after. This will help lower the memory consumption.

I've had comps where Fusion would crash or lock up once the memory (128GB with around 90 available to Fusion) was full for a while and not being released. For those comps, I simply split the render job into groups of around 300 frames and the problem was solved.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#13

Post by intelligent machine » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:56 am

I've used Neat Video without issues in 902 but I'm on MacOS.

You can download previous versions of Fusion from here:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... and-fusion

You'll have to scroll way down in the left column below all the DaVinci Resolve 15 and 14 updates.................way down.

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#14

Post by lenny87 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:03 am

Thanx intelligent machine
i go and have a look :-)

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Re: Fusion crashes, I think it might be a hardware problem??

#15

Post by Midgardsormr » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:48 am

Aha! Neat Video + DeltaKeyer might be an issue. I've been having an intermittent crash problem where Delta crashes if OpenCL is off. But I can't seem to put my finger on exactly what causes it. Those two tools are definitely close to the root, though. Naturally, every time I run into it I'm under a crazy short deadline, and then I forget to go back and test it.
Last edited by Midgardsormr on Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.