Fusion and HDR monitor out

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xmare
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Fusion and HDR monitor out

#1

Post by xmare » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:57 am

Hi Gurus!
Just wondering if anyone has expierience with Fusion compositing within new HDR-colorspace-standard-thingy.
What can I use, what doesn't work...
Is there some live monitor-out solution / issues (via blackmagic cards or so)

I know its a broad topic, but perhaps You can share some expierence ;)

Thank You in advance

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#2

Post by cinewrangler » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:54 am

Even for HDR you should still be doing the compositin in scene linear. If you are asking how to monitor on an extrernal HDR monitor (connected using SDI) so that you can see stuff that is over 100% brightness then you might just need the proper LUT inserted (which converts scene linear to HLG or whatever the monitor takes as input). - But I have to say I've never used Fusion with a Decklink card, so I'm just assuming/hoping that you can activate a LUT for the SDI out more or less the same way as you would for the internal viewers.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#3

Post by Midgardsormr » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:14 am

I'm also interested in any information on this topic, as my boss just put a new HDR-capable 4k monitor (LG 27UK850) on my desk and asked me to evaluate it. So far I don't see any difference in anything, other than my interface being reaaaallly tiny.

Based on what I've learned so far, in the limited time I've had available to do the research, the first thing I need to do is probably update to Windows 10, as 7 doesn't seem to have much support for HDR output.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#4

Post by xmare » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:38 pm

Thank You for the answers.

I am indeed looking for a way to properly display and evaluate compositing content on a Monitor / Tv..
either via LUT or some other tools.

I see the "possibility" in preferences>video monitoring> OUTPUT hdr over HDMI - but somehow it doesn't work..
(also i don't understand what's about VideoOutput [a hardware card] and Monitor Output [these are options?]).

Feel free to speculate this further.. i will try to get sth from BMD on official forum

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#5

Post by Midgardsormr » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:58 pm

I think "monitor output" is for the full-screen image to a second PC monitor. If you turn it off then restart Fusion the third dot on the nodes goes away (assuming you have two monitors connected).

I know on my screen the HDR signal has to have some kind of subchannel information that tells the monitor to allow its HDR mode. If that information isn't there it acts just like a normal SDR screen. I am not sure if the Monitor Output will send that signal or not. I'm thinking not at the moment, but I can't test it until the OS upgrade. And even then I'm not sure how, exactly.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#6

Post by xmare » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:16 pm

i have the same thing - i am previewing a dpx seq.. the metadata are in the seperate file...
curious thingy is - the dpx (not-logarithmic) when treated like Log, look simillar to the HDR output ;)

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#7

Post by JPDoc » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:30 am

As an aside to Bryan, I was looking at the same LG monitor and found this helpful
https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/lg-27uk8 ... 34487.html
if you haven't seen it already.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#8

Post by xmare » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:55 am

from the other side - has anyone did some vfx for HDR show?

was there any difference ;) ?
or can share some expierience?

thank You

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#9

Post by Midgardsormr » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:10 am

JPDoc wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:30 am
As an aside to Bryan, I was looking at the same LG monitor and found this helpful

I saw it, and it was a little helpful, at least in terms of settings. I've bookmarked it so I can go back and refresh my memory once I have access to an HDR10 signal.

xmare wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:55 am
has anyone did some vfx for HDR show?

We worked on Legion last year, and they had several "white room" scenes. The biggest lesson we learned as a result is that you cannot hide anything in the super-whites any more. Don't trust the client's LUT—it can't show you the HDR image, so you have to gain down to see what's going to be visible. We almost missed delivery on a couple of shots because they failed QC in the color bay and the fixes took hours.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#10

Post by SecondMan » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:05 am

Midgardsormr wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:10 am
The biggest lesson we learned as a result is that you cannot hide anything in the super-whites any more.
Best tip for working in HDR. I've seen results of comp work on HDR monitors and it's shocking. Almost literally so - the difference in brightness between shots can be so large it makes you blink.

Anyway, I remember seeing a couple of 'simple' car comps (people in car talking, green screen BG) and you could see all the edge extend gags as a big grey outline around the characters. Horrible stuff.

Working for HDR isn't so hard, but you need to keep aware that - as Bryan said - there is no wiping dirt under the carpet anymore. I love the range, though. I'd much rather see a jump to HDR than one to 8K at this time.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#11

Post by ShadowMaker SdR » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:18 am

I remember the first time I worked with log files scanned from film and in 32 bit inside of Fusion. I was so amazed at how much bigger the range was. I had to do a bluescreen of a plane with a BG and I comped a full-range image so that they could bring it all the way back to an underexposed foreground with a normal sky behind it. So much fun.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#12

Post by xmare » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:27 am

Great! thx for the input!
Have You used one onf HDR monitors / TV for comping?
or did You roll the gamma / gain sliders back and forth to check the range?

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#13

Post by Chad » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:55 pm

NVAPI provides support for linear float16 framebuffer output to HDR10. I assume AMD does somehow too. So the fullscreen output might be able to add that in. Windows 10 has support for HDR10 in windowed apps, too, but I have no idea what the implication for that is for GUI stuff. Would be awesome to have the viewers directly support it though. I have no idea what MacOS or Linux has for this. I know they were lagging behind Windows, but that was 2 years ago.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#14

Post by Midgardsormr » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:20 am

Thanks, Chad! Do you think it would require a plug-in on the Fusion side? I haven't yet looked for anything related to the framebuffer in the SDK.

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Re: Fusion and HDR monitor out

#15

Post by Chad » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:08 pm

Well... back in the Eyeon days, you could write a plugin that would do a monitor out, and that's how things like Bluefish 4:4:4, AJA, or even BMD did the output. But that's not obviously possible now. Not that it's obvious that it's not possible, just that there's no longer an obvious way to do it now. Could you hack a workaround? Sure, a bunch of different ways.