"Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

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bryanfordney
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"Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#1

Post by bryanfordney » Fri May 17, 2019 12:23 pm

I'm trying out Fusion 16. One of my beefs with Fusion 9 was color management. I'm a bit spoiled coming from the Adobe world which uses ICC profiles, which are very easy to deal with.

I'm wondering what has changed in this area for Fusion 16. The "Managed" option certainly sounds interesting, but not sure how it is any different from a Gamut View LUT.

My hope would be a way to use the ICC profile created via calibration software in order to get color-accurate previews in the viewers, given that I state somewhere what my "working space" is, and that I conform all my source material to that space (which I am fine with doing manually).

Thanks for any help!


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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#2

Post by gez » Wed May 22, 2019 5:59 pm

ICCs are pretty much display-referred and might be unsuitable for modern scene-referred workflows.
Using LUTs and OCIO may sound daunting and weird when you come from ICCs but it's not that hard once you get the hang of it (I'd say it's easier than ICCs, because up to certain point ICCs have lots of "secret sauce" going on and you can't really tell what they are doing).
Sure it's easy to grab a colorimeter or spectro with its factory software and produce a screen ICC, but that's not that useful for vfx/cg.

Take a look at displaycal (https://displaycal.net/), that can be used pretty much as the software from your measuring device but with some cool extras, like producing 3D Luts from your display profile you can use later on Fusion.

Personally I kind of like to have control over the view and CM options and find the Adobe approach way too "managed" for my taste, but YMMV :-)


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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#3

Post by intelligent machine » Wed May 22, 2019 9:27 pm

Hi @gez. You seem to know a great deal about LUTs, OCIO, and scene-referred workflow.

Since this topic comes up quite a bit, when you have some free time, would you be interested in putting together an in-depth workflow breakdown in a new topic (that could possibly be pinned)?
With generalized details, steps, definitions and maybe outside reference or imagery and then how it relates within Fusion?
I know a lot of people out there just know enough to get by which is fine in many cases. Also, the information available on the internet is scattered, inconsistent, incomplete and many times software specific.


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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#4

Post by gez » Thu May 23, 2019 9:10 am

Sure, I'm not an expert by any means but I'll do my best (also luckily I have a few very kwnoledgeable friends who can peer review what I write so we're all sure I don't screw it up) :-D

It may take some time, though.
...
Meanwhile, here's a nice read from Troy Sobotka where he covers the basics of digital colour in his particular style:
https://medium.com/the-hitchhikers-guid ... tal-colour
It's a nice warm up read because it asks many questions that we think we know the answers already, but might surprise us.


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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#5

Post by bryanfordney » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:46 pm

Hey, thanks for the reply. I actually do use DisplayCAL and I use the 3D LUTs it generates in Fusion. I won't pretend I know exactly what I'm doing though, and DisplayCAL has many options to customize the LUT. The interaction between the ICC profile that DisplayCAL generates and the 3D LUTs is also a point of confusion for me.

I'd be curious if someone could share some insight on this when working in linear sRGB (for example) in Fusion, and (attempting) to get a decent preview on their monitor, and not an external device.

Thank you!

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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#6

Post by bryanfordney » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:46 am

My current setup is this:

1. Calibrate my monitor with DisplayCAL.
2. Activate the ICC profile generated.
3. In DisplayCAL, generate a 3D LUT from sRGB to my monitor's ICC profile. Disable "vcgt". Unsure what "Rendering Intent" should be set to. Left as default.
4. In Fusion, load that 3D LUT as a "Buffer LUT" in all my viewers.
5. Depending on the comp, setup the Viewer LUT to go from whatever the comp requires to sRGB. Then the buffer LUT carries the sRGB to my monitor. So a two-step process there.

Does that sound reasonable? My problem with this is using sRGB as a kindof middle-man. However as you said, we don't quite know what Adobe software is doing to achieve the same result. They must be using some kind of "reference space" as a middle-man when importing footage of one color space, and working in another, and then finally previewing on a monitor in yet another space.

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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#7

Post by Midgardsormr » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:43 pm

New beta available. The managed LUT was not supposed to exist outside of Resolve. It has been removed from the new build.

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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#8

Post by rslittle » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:46 am

One problem is you are confusing ICC profiles with ALL color profiles. ICC is a very specific color science. ICC support for floating point color has been very limited until just recently with the introduction of ICCMAX.
bryanfordney wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:46 am
My current setup is this:

1. Calibrate my monitor with DisplayCAL.
2. Activate the ICC profile generated.
3. In DisplayCAL, generate a 3D LUT from sRGB to my monitor's ICC profile. Disable "vcgt". Unsure what "Rendering Intent" should be set to. Left as default.
4. In Fusion, load that 3D LUT as a "Buffer LUT" in all my viewers.
5. Depending on the comp, setup the Viewer LUT to go from whatever the comp requires to sRGB. Then the buffer LUT carries the sRGB to my monitor. So a two-step process there.

Does that sound reasonable? My problem with this is using sRGB as a kindof middle-man. However as you said, we don't quite know what Adobe software is doing to achieve the same result. They must be using some kind of "reference space" as a middle-man when importing footage of one color space, and working in another, and then finally previewing on a monitor in yet another space.

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Re: "Managed" option in Fusion 16 for viewer LUT?

#9

Post by bryanfordney » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:03 am

Midgardsormr wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:43 pm
New beta available. The managed LUT was not supposed to exist outside of Resolve. It has been removed from the new build.
Well, I suppose that answers my question ;)

It would be helpful to have some guide on how to properly setup Fusion for monitoring. I know it's not meant to be automatic, because that would probably make false assumptions. But a guide for a few common workflows would be nice, such as (in my case) working solely on a computer monitor, working in linear sRGB, and wanting to see a preview in sRGB on my non-sRGB (wider gamut) monitor.

My preference would be to avoid OCIO as it seems really slow, and to make as much use of the Gamut node or Gamut View LUT as possible, since it's fast.

I think I have arrived at a solution on my end but I still feel a bit uncertain about it.